Hi, the home we own in Colorado has a really large flagstone patio but the previous owner never put in any fillers. The look is great, however, it is too soft for their liking. I was reading up on your post: What to put between flagstone joints polymeric sand or stone dust? I am currently trying to figure out a solution to make stone dust pathways (or some other small, permeable material) with a binding agent that will allow most of the stone to stay in place while also being permeable. Re-lay on stone dust/pathway fines/DG.they sell it in your area, but since I dont know your area I can not tell you the local name. Im glad we didnt go with polymeric sand! Id just power wash the whole thing., some joint material may bust loose just from the water.Then Id take a large flathead screwdriver and start prying out joint material. I selected Galleries and then Flagstone Walkways, the last two images once magnified to 500% show clear images of your stone screenings. All around, cleaning up the poly sand haze is either a speculative affair, or a dangerous blow torch deal, best left to professionals! Thank you. Basic advice can be free but you worked hard and long to get those skills and knowledge. Id love to find something natural in a deep blu to go with the bluestone. It did say that clean up was with ammonia, so isit stray cat proof? Devin-Way to go! Good luck with it, whatever you do. Do you have any comments on how to best drain this so it doesnt continue to settle after i install the flagstones? Thats the basic formula. Pour the concrete into the mold and level it out with a trowel. We want to go with a flagstone patio around the pool. This will allow you to enjoy your stabilized pea gravel for years to come. Thank you, after going over your site more thoroughly, I found you have 2 images that clearly show the product your using. It already has plasticizers added into the mix, to increase workbility and stickiness, no need to add lime. Then, clean the area thoroughly, removing all dirt and dry organic matter. DG will work the same. You will likely need to repeat applying a binder every 6 to 8 years. *its a plant fiber. If you do find my advice useful, then please do share some of my work on whatever social media you use, especially photos of my dry stone sculpture: https://www.devineescapes.com/dry-stone-sculpture/. The article above addresses flagstone joints in a dry laid applicationwith a gravel foundation. 3. "I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. Perhaps you could take a smaller piece of stone, create a mosaic up top of thatand use the resultant piece as a smaller paving stone, set on stone dust, among your dry laid flagstones. Half inch, quarter inch, eighth an inchany of those would workso long as they have fines3/8 is what I usually use, but I work around the country, and sizes/names vary slightly yet every place Ive been wcarries something like this. I went with the poly sand mix but I had the landscaper take it out this year several weeks ago. Through the washing, exposed some cracks between the pavers. Some areas actually need it more than once a year I live in Connecticut, and parts of my patio and walkways dont get much sunlight. So good job. Do not use polymeric sand with flagstone. The contractor used a Portland lime & sand mortar beige color by Spec Mix between the stones. This more or less turns your stone dust into polymeric sandand you know the risks involved with that. voc free, eco-friendly and easy to install for the DIY. Read that againstone dust settling down in-between flagstone is a GOOD thing. I have pea gravel, QP would have packed down nice but its not friendly for barefeet. Is the patio pitched in the right direction, and pitched consistently? Stone dust is the way to go for most professionally installed flagstone patios. but no sand. or mortar, in your case. Reasons are described HERE. Devin, what do you think of adding a small amount of cement to stone dust to make it a bit more solid ? We probably will use large pre cut 2x3ft, 2x2ft and 21.5ft rectangular size stones. I was very worried about the hazing of the stone from using Polymetric sand. Or sand, if need be. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I cant find anyone who sells decomposed granite. White/cream color us also available at some masonry supply places. Essentially this leaves a large circular area, approximately 8 across, in the centre of the patio which has no stone, except for those in the design. Or any Masonry supply place. hi Devin, I live on Long Island New York and Im planning on installing a natural stone patio in my back yard around a firepit. Using pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, to stabilize your pea gravel walkway is another option. My guess is that this is a type of decomposed granite or screenings? If so, dont use it. This stuff is the type of stuff Im talking about. What do you suggest for front stair edges to prevent the stone from being tippy? Take a 1 paint brush and just apply sealant to the mortar joints, keeping the stone not sealed. Most solvents that will actually remove it will probably also stain the pavers anew, so theyre out. You want to leave the joints approximately 1/8 to 1/4 below the top of the stone. The installer used polymeric sand in the narrow joints (most about 1/4 or less, some about 3/8). Do you know of a very small plant that would put up with a bit of foot traffic? Help! If you used screenings as both the leveling agent and as the joint filler, this is no big deal. (Note: I am not a professional, but love to DYI landscape). The first option that I gave will not keep 100 percent of the gravel in placebut most of it, yesand if you remember to use modified gravel, gravel with smaller chips and stone dust in it, then it should feel pretty sturdy underfoot. Hi Devin. Tree limbs, leaves and mud can end up on the driveway. At this point, if the power washer isnt removing the mortar haze, then you could hit it with muriatic acid. Patio is sloped but not very much. I re-rake the kennels every few days to keep the coverage even. Any idea how to remove the haze from the pavers? We dug eight inches deep, used broken concrete chunks, and then filled the voids with #411 limestone gravel, (1 1/2 inches to fines), and then #10 limestone screening on top. Take it dry and rake it in with the pea gravel , you dont want too much cement sitting on top . I sent him your article about using quarry dust. 2. Its looks like a flat matte color where there was poly sand and where no poly sand you see a beautiful high gloss high color finish.this is the best analogy I can think of. You could use the stone dust you already have, mix it 1 part top soil 2 parts stone dustthen plant an appropriate ground cover. Comment *document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "ab7c4abf609fa1ed15dbe4a1e48f5b44" );document.getElementById("b69840f237").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Devine Escapes is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. I am sure this is what the person who installed our flagstone patio 8 years ago said to use to fill the cracks. Keeping the gravel in-place seems to be a full time job. Good luck! Thanks for any advice on this. If it is a shady area around your patio you could encourage Moss to grow there and let the most take over so weeds cant grow. Thanks! The previous comment about the smaller stones becoming loose made me wonder if using the red steppers will work. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Once the gravel is completely loose and all objects removed, it should be tamped down using either a hand tamper . My husband and I were considering using the polymeric sand in our new flagstone patio but my gut was telling me to go with the natural product. On impulse, I created a design, using a few large pieces of flagstone, in the centre of the patio. Theres white screeningswhich is more a cream/off white color. Sure, with such large gaps the stone dust may kick out, and get on the stone surface, but it wont be an annoyance or a trip hazard, the way that larger gravel probably will. They laid it out very beautifully and was pleased with their work. En Oh spells nope, just dont do it, ever. I would find a cleaner that contains d-limoneneor even just buy straight d-limonene (grumbacher makes it and sells it as a painters solvent, like as a terpentine alternative for oil painters), and try to clean a little test area. The stone settles, the joint cracks. I researched the heck out of polymeric sand, and tested out three different kinds. Great work, youve inspired another. The PO had installed pea gravel in the planting beds; in some areas it was more than 4 inches deep--I hated it. Using decomposed granite will help the pea gravel set and not move when people walk on it. Some are 10 years with no problems. Anywayssince you just used local soil, and built it yourself rather than hiring a mason, we can pretty much just say Well, it may not be perfect, but its got heart!. Also, Id wait at least 2 weeks before powerwashing over new jointsand at least that long, more like a month, before using acid. Only time cement is used in the joint material is if the patio has a proper concrete foundation. Have a great summer. I think you use what you have available. I used baking soda on my patio to kill weeds. Well, if the foundation and pitch all seem decent, then Id simply suggest removing the gator dust and replacing with stone dust. Also, I just placed about 4 of them to see how it might work. Some of the stones youre showing me look a bit on the small side. We have a large concrete patio(800 sq ft?) As far as separation along the cracks goesthis is a matter of technique, not of product. The advantages of gravel. IDK what the limestone flour only material is you speak of, but you should be able to find proper screenings/grit/decomposed granite/8th inch minus/crusher run/etc in your area, under one name or another. Do you think this woudl be a better option than concrete with our climate? Problem. Hello: I just read your article regarding polymeric sand use, thank you for your thoughts on this. Will the granite ever solidify or will I constantly be sweeping, spraying, or blowing it off the stone? . Personally, my preference is to merely lay larger stone along the edge of the patiohave all of your edge flagstones, large. I just used stone dust (screenings) as a leveler and in between flagstones. It is just what I was after and while the pea gravel has the "look" it does not have the stability. The decomposed granite in the second link also looks right, but it will probably cost more. I plan to move every stone out to the opposite side and keep the pattern intact. Thinking of switching to concrete-frustrated poly user.help. Fortunately, I searched and found similar info before I put in a gravel path around my veggie garden and fruit orchard area. In my experience however, that was a rare exception to the rule. You can also use cement. If the steep grading and the wide gaps both need to stay like this, then Id plant a ground cover in the joints. We have 4sands as sub grade than we use Belgard permeable pavers that has 1/2 gap in between, and filled them in with 3/8 gravel. So far we have tried aggressive scrubbing test areas with soap and water, aggressive scrubbing with a 50/50 bleach mixture, and also with a powerful house siding cleaning mixtureall with no luck, the same haze remains. This was done to lower costs, and because the pond area wouldnt receive heavy foot traffic (so we werent worrying about people kicking the stone dust out with their shoes) and also because we wanted a looser look, around the pond. Anyone with real life experience using it? I figured this was due to the change in temperature? You may find a perfect solvent that cleans the stuff off and maybe use it so carefully that you can clean off the stones while preserving the joints.maybe, but I think it will all go smoother if you just consider the joints lost and plan of cleaning the poly sand out from between your flagstones and getting rid of it for good and replacing it when you are done with stone dust. If the foundation is dry laid, repair using dry laid methods/if the foundation is cement based, repair with cementious materials. Ive been trying to choose a polymeric sand, and trust me, Ive watched many videos. Best of luck! Must be a west coast thing. I have put 2"x4" around the border of the exercise yard to keep the gravel from migrating out of the enclosure. The 10-in. The water from the hose will cause the screenings to settlebut Ill also use the hose to wash out any joints where the stone dust remains even with the top of the flagstone because ultimately, what you want is to have the joints filled to about a quarter inch or so from the top of the flagstone. Ill Probably go with your suggestion of screenings or DG. Good luck! great article. So the stones just didnt get seated properly. Is this a different product or same thing but a different name? Polymeric sand is indeed pretty good on these fronts.for the first year or 3. Theres some way to clean the stuff of your flagstones! Its kind of silly but often people have screenings/breeze/DG all over their flagstones for the simple reason that they insisted on filling the joints in between the stones all the way to the tippy top. Scrub the top of the flagstones using diluted muriatic acid, with a shop book. I have mostly smaller spaces between the stones but there are some areas up to 3 wide. Wait, wait, youre saying lots of stones move when stepped on. Im just kind of not liking going with the plain gray. I have no advice nor opinions and nothing at all to say about permeable pavers. A professional, who will talk with you on the phone, and walk you through the process of laying flagstone, repairing flagstone, or any other such situation? Others, with a concrete border. My wife and I are interested in a new brown wave patio. Hello, could you please post a few close up pictures of the stone screenings that you use so we can try to match our locally available products as closely as possible. I have been extremely happy with it -- it looks great and has stayed neat, clean, and stable for two years now. If you set your flagstones upon a gravel foundation/on a bed of sand or stone dustthen fill your joints with stone dust. How old is your patio? Install another 46 tons of gravel, this time the appropriate 3/4 minus, angular crushed stone with fines. The screenings will generally stay put, once theyve been swept into place and hosed down real well. As such, when maintenance issues do arise, you probably want to call a pro and have them deal with it. Yes, whenever you grind out mortar joints between flagstone, I pretty much expect a stone or two to pop up lose. Should I try to hammer drill the mortar grout out? They also connected the various sections with #4 re-bar so the patio is pretty stable as one piece. I had a flagstone patio laid 2 years ago. Using your own native soils though, a person COULD screen there topsoil and collect all gravels of certain sized, and mix them with finer sand and clay particles, and thereby create a decent soil foundation, using just what you have. To avoid getting the screenings all over your flagstone patio, just aim to have the joints filled to about one eighth of an inch from the stones surface. Also can I expect your comment via email or simply on this site? I was tempted to use the leftover poly sand from our paved project on our flagstones which already have screenings between them because after a good rain lots of stone chips pop up onto the flagstones making it unpleasant to walk on with bare feet. Ive never heard of anything like that. Is that just the nature of stone dust? Well yes, if a flagstone patio is pitched properly then water will flow over the flagstones and into a drain. On the other hand, if you are using gravel on a patio, it is best if the pea gravel is completely immovable. If it still collects lots of water, its a good indicator that you need to dig a drainage trench. This falls under the no cement at all in a dry laid patio rule. I have been thinking of taking the pressure washer and blasting out all the soil, and replacing it with screening i think it will look better, and am hoping it will stay clean longer. I plan on using a thicker layer of concrete sand below the stone, (up to six inches); thick enough so that it accommodates the irregular thickness, and providing me a flat stone surface on top. Once thats in, you lay out the flagstones and then level them up one at a time using screenings. Thanks in advance. Thats about the best I can answer.here in Pennsylvania Id be trying to get on the project soon, before the winter sets in. Others seem to crack every 4-5 years (near roof leader downspouts and a few other areas that take longer to dry out due to adjoining vegetation). You simply sweep more screenings into the joint and life is good, with no great worries at all. I believe there are different kinds of sand and one of them might work.